From Subtle Signs to Surgical Answers - The Boykin & Owner Who Showed Us First
In April of 2025, we came across a post on Instagram from fellow Boykin owner Katie Schloss, sharing concerns about her girl Indigo — subtle signs, odd pain responses, hesitation with movement, small shifts in behavior that didn’t quite add up. At first glance, these symptoms closely resembled IVDD, something we see far more commonly in the breed, and we reached out to discuss possibilities. As conversations continued and symptoms progressed, Katie made the decision every owner hopes never to face — she sought neurological evaluation. That choice led to an unexpected diagnosis few Boykin owners have ever heard of: Tethered Cord Syndrome (TCS). Her story is the first we are aware of within the Boykin Spaniel community, and because of her willingness to share, we now have an opportunity to help others recognize what might otherwise be missed. Below is Indie’s journey — followed by direct expert insight from board-certified specialists on what TCS is, how it presents, and why this condition now matters to our breed.
We believe education should be supported by evidence wherever possible --
and today, we’re fortunate to have both story and science aligned.
and today, we’re fortunate to have both story and science aligned.
Indie has been a normal Boykin Spaniel, active, ball focused, and unable to be kept from any body of water. She has trained and competed in agility and dock diving. We’ve also trained in flyball, rally, and retrieving work. She loves learning and loves being active. So I was quite shocked when what started as hind end lameness, led us to the suspected diagnosis of Tethered Cord Syndrome (TCS). I’m writing this to share more about our journey and how nuanced pain can be. Especially when the symptoms are subtle. In TCS specifically, the understudied nature of the diagnosis in dogs means not all providers know what to look for. Leaving owners to feel stuck or isolated.
Throughout Indie’s puppyhood, I noticed she would spend quite a bit of time in the pace gait. I didn’t think anything of it, just that I’ve been told it’s an energy saving gait. In actuality, little is known about the cause of a pace gait and why our dogs engage in it (Wendland, T. M., Martin, K. W., Duncan, C. G., Marolf, A. J., & Duerr, F. M., 2016). As we continued to train and compete in agility, I noticed some other difficulties, popping out of weave poles in training and completely avoiding them in trials. I chalked it up to arousal and needing more training in new environments.
In the summer of 2024, Indie started to show a skip/lameness on the right hind. During day training that winter the trainers pointed out a movement in her hind right that felt concerning. For the purpose of this, I’m labeling it as a twisting hock motion. It had always been a part of her gait so I didn’t think much of it. The more I got curious about Indie’s body movements and experiences, the more things I saw. For Indie, I saw the following behaviors: right hind end skipping, twisting hocks in back right (internal/medial hip rotation), bunny hopping, sitting while eating, offloading in sit, stiffness when itching with back legs or shaking, frequently walking in pace gait, aversion to wearing harness, opting out of activities, sensitivity in hind end/lower back area, and overuse of front limbs. Additionally some symptoms Indie has experienced are expressing anal glands frequently and other GI issues.
Throughout Indie’s puppyhood, I noticed she would spend quite a bit of time in the pace gait. I didn’t think anything of it, just that I’ve been told it’s an energy saving gait. In actuality, little is known about the cause of a pace gait and why our dogs engage in it (Wendland, T. M., Martin, K. W., Duncan, C. G., Marolf, A. J., & Duerr, F. M., 2016). As we continued to train and compete in agility, I noticed some other difficulties, popping out of weave poles in training and completely avoiding them in trials. I chalked it up to arousal and needing more training in new environments.
In the summer of 2024, Indie started to show a skip/lameness on the right hind. During day training that winter the trainers pointed out a movement in her hind right that felt concerning. For the purpose of this, I’m labeling it as a twisting hock motion. It had always been a part of her gait so I didn’t think much of it. The more I got curious about Indie’s body movements and experiences, the more things I saw. For Indie, I saw the following behaviors: right hind end skipping, twisting hocks in back right (internal/medial hip rotation), bunny hopping, sitting while eating, offloading in sit, stiffness when itching with back legs or shaking, frequently walking in pace gait, aversion to wearing harness, opting out of activities, sensitivity in hind end/lower back area, and overuse of front limbs. Additionally some symptoms Indie has experienced are expressing anal glands frequently and other GI issues.
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Subtle pain indicators that are easy to overlook
Indie shows hesitation, uneven gait, mild discomfort and shifting weight - behaviors than can appear behavioral, lazy or normal but were early signs of TCS. |
Additional pain episodes recorded at home
Watch for brief moments of reaction, sudden stillness, posture change or offloading - things most owners might never identify as pain. |
Alone, these things may not seem like indicators of pain. It could be seen as a lack of fitness and muscle strength. When Indie first began skipping we got in with a rehab vet. Like most dog owners, I assumed she had a luxating patella. Her x-rays came back normal and the vet believed we could treat it as a soft tissue injury. I was so relieved! After day training trainers pointed out the twisting hock, I was able to get in with a rehab vet closer to home. She noted Indie’s array of behaviors were concerning and she’s seen nerve root pain in sport dogs. To explore nerve root pain Indie would need a dynamic MRI. A dynamic MRI images the dog's spine in flexion and extension. Indie’s MRI came back unremarkable, meaning she is a normal, healthy dog. We added in pain meds and rehab exercises to see if this would alleviate any symptoms. Despite these supports in place, we saw no changes to her symptoms.
As Indie and I remained in the limbo of what was going on, a trainer friend reached out. She mentioned having a client dog with TCS and felt like Indie’s symptoms mirrored what she has learned. I started to do some research and at first I wasn’t fully convinced. In true millennial fashion, I was advised to post in the Canine Conditioning and Body Awareness Facebook group. In the 50 plus comments, the themes were severe deficits/discomfort somewhere in the hind limbs and/or lumbosacral area and tethered cord syndrome. We were pointed in the direction of Dr. Elizabeth Parsley DVM, DACVIM. She is known for her work with TCS and tackling tricky neuro cases. After reviewing Indie’s dynamic MRI, she noted a few things that would reinforce TCS as the culprit of Indie’s pain. She noted her spinal cord is a little longer than what is expected in her size. Additionally, when she looked at how Indie’s spinal cord moves in different positions, she did not see any movement. The relief I felt when I first read her email was palpable. Finally, finally, we had something to explore for causing Indie’s pain. We had a direction to go in. At this point, we’d been through countless diagnostics with no answers for over a year. I believe I actually cried after reading her email.
So what is Tethered Cord? It is a neurological condition primarily studied in humans but is understudied in dogs. To dive into it, “TCS results from tension caused by an abnormal anchoring of the end portion of the spinal cord within the spinal canal. This results in the normal, gliding movement of the spinal cord being restricted, and the subsequent stretching can cause various neurological symptoms. These can vary from non-specific pain in the lower back, rear limb lameness, exercise intolerance, to chewing the back feet, sitting suddenly on walks, intermittent pain and, in some cases, incontinence. The symptoms are often quite vague or non-specific and can overlap with more common orthopedic conditions.” (Canada West Veterinary Specialists, 2025). TCS is also associated with the filum terminale (FT), noting in TCS the FT is short, thick, or inelastic (Posporis, at el, 2025). Essentially, in dogs TCS results from the FT being pulled up in an abnormal position causing tension on the spinal cord or inelastic, prohibiting movement of the spinal cord. The tension from the FT causes abnormal traction on the conus medullarius (CM).
As my brain wrapped around the medical components, what remained true was that Indie is in pain. The vagueness, variety of her symptoms, and lack of study around the diagnosis made it difficult to pinpoint what was going on and what to do. While working with our neurologist and rehab vet, we got Indie started on additional pain medications to see how her symptoms were impacted by medication management. Anecdotally, I noticed improvements on Amantadine and maintenance of symptoms on methocarbamol. The plan was to continue to monitor symptoms, assess efficacy of pain medications, and make a plan for surgery. Indie’s symptoms fluctuated and had steadily regressed since her first instance of skipping and we ultimately decided to pursue surgery. From the limited research, surgery has shown to have best overall outcomes for dogs (Lampe, Rachel and Kalamkarova, Elina and Barnard, Laura and Mareschal, Augustin and Keenihan, Erin K and Sharp, Nick JH, 2025) . With Indie being five, we did not want to wait until she was older to potentially take away her ability to qualify for an invasive spinal surgery. In surgery the neurosurgeon will “detether” the FT by cutting it.
Indie underwent surgery November 20th of this year. Dr. Parsley noted in surgery that Indie’s thecal sac (the sac containing the spinal cord) appeared dilated with a sudden narrowing, almost like a tourniquet. Once her thecal sac was opened, Dr. Parsley saw lots of adhesions in the area of the tourniquet. She attempted to break apart the adhesions as best she could but ultimately they could not fully isolate the filum from within this tissue as it was all adhered together so transection of the full tissue was performed. In laymen terms, holy s***, Dr. Parsley basically had to hack away at these adhesions and FT to provide Indie with relief. (So sorry if you’re wincing reading this Dr. Parsley, I don’t think you actually hacked away at Indie’s spine). I was floored. I can’t imagine having something that contains nerves be so tight and impacting functioning. With the addition of adhesions, I can only imagine the immense pain Indie has been in.
Indie has been home and is now two weeks post-op. In some ways it is too soon to note progress or regression. Recovery looks like strict rest and light massage to orient to her body post op. I was pleased to be annoyed by Indie, her boredom resulted in asking for cookies and playtime. Despite being on a cocktail of medications. This gives me hope that despite it all, she is beginning to feel some relief and normalcy. We met with her rehab vet about 10 days post-op. Her rehab vet was pleased with her movement, responses to palpation on exam, and tail functioning. Indie responded well to stretching in this appointment as well. Indie will start more rehab exercises as she hits the 4 weeks post op mark. I’m so hopeful for Indie and what her future will look like.
As Indie and I remained in the limbo of what was going on, a trainer friend reached out. She mentioned having a client dog with TCS and felt like Indie’s symptoms mirrored what she has learned. I started to do some research and at first I wasn’t fully convinced. In true millennial fashion, I was advised to post in the Canine Conditioning and Body Awareness Facebook group. In the 50 plus comments, the themes were severe deficits/discomfort somewhere in the hind limbs and/or lumbosacral area and tethered cord syndrome. We were pointed in the direction of Dr. Elizabeth Parsley DVM, DACVIM. She is known for her work with TCS and tackling tricky neuro cases. After reviewing Indie’s dynamic MRI, she noted a few things that would reinforce TCS as the culprit of Indie’s pain. She noted her spinal cord is a little longer than what is expected in her size. Additionally, when she looked at how Indie’s spinal cord moves in different positions, she did not see any movement. The relief I felt when I first read her email was palpable. Finally, finally, we had something to explore for causing Indie’s pain. We had a direction to go in. At this point, we’d been through countless diagnostics with no answers for over a year. I believe I actually cried after reading her email.
So what is Tethered Cord? It is a neurological condition primarily studied in humans but is understudied in dogs. To dive into it, “TCS results from tension caused by an abnormal anchoring of the end portion of the spinal cord within the spinal canal. This results in the normal, gliding movement of the spinal cord being restricted, and the subsequent stretching can cause various neurological symptoms. These can vary from non-specific pain in the lower back, rear limb lameness, exercise intolerance, to chewing the back feet, sitting suddenly on walks, intermittent pain and, in some cases, incontinence. The symptoms are often quite vague or non-specific and can overlap with more common orthopedic conditions.” (Canada West Veterinary Specialists, 2025). TCS is also associated with the filum terminale (FT), noting in TCS the FT is short, thick, or inelastic (Posporis, at el, 2025). Essentially, in dogs TCS results from the FT being pulled up in an abnormal position causing tension on the spinal cord or inelastic, prohibiting movement of the spinal cord. The tension from the FT causes abnormal traction on the conus medullarius (CM).
As my brain wrapped around the medical components, what remained true was that Indie is in pain. The vagueness, variety of her symptoms, and lack of study around the diagnosis made it difficult to pinpoint what was going on and what to do. While working with our neurologist and rehab vet, we got Indie started on additional pain medications to see how her symptoms were impacted by medication management. Anecdotally, I noticed improvements on Amantadine and maintenance of symptoms on methocarbamol. The plan was to continue to monitor symptoms, assess efficacy of pain medications, and make a plan for surgery. Indie’s symptoms fluctuated and had steadily regressed since her first instance of skipping and we ultimately decided to pursue surgery. From the limited research, surgery has shown to have best overall outcomes for dogs (Lampe, Rachel and Kalamkarova, Elina and Barnard, Laura and Mareschal, Augustin and Keenihan, Erin K and Sharp, Nick JH, 2025) . With Indie being five, we did not want to wait until she was older to potentially take away her ability to qualify for an invasive spinal surgery. In surgery the neurosurgeon will “detether” the FT by cutting it.
Indie underwent surgery November 20th of this year. Dr. Parsley noted in surgery that Indie’s thecal sac (the sac containing the spinal cord) appeared dilated with a sudden narrowing, almost like a tourniquet. Once her thecal sac was opened, Dr. Parsley saw lots of adhesions in the area of the tourniquet. She attempted to break apart the adhesions as best she could but ultimately they could not fully isolate the filum from within this tissue as it was all adhered together so transection of the full tissue was performed. In laymen terms, holy s***, Dr. Parsley basically had to hack away at these adhesions and FT to provide Indie with relief. (So sorry if you’re wincing reading this Dr. Parsley, I don’t think you actually hacked away at Indie’s spine). I was floored. I can’t imagine having something that contains nerves be so tight and impacting functioning. With the addition of adhesions, I can only imagine the immense pain Indie has been in.
Indie has been home and is now two weeks post-op. In some ways it is too soon to note progress or regression. Recovery looks like strict rest and light massage to orient to her body post op. I was pleased to be annoyed by Indie, her boredom resulted in asking for cookies and playtime. Despite being on a cocktail of medications. This gives me hope that despite it all, she is beginning to feel some relief and normalcy. We met with her rehab vet about 10 days post-op. Her rehab vet was pleased with her movement, responses to palpation on exam, and tail functioning. Indie responded well to stretching in this appointment as well. Indie will start more rehab exercises as she hits the 4 weeks post op mark. I’m so hopeful for Indie and what her future will look like.
I am not a veterinarian, behavior specialist, trainer, canine fitness pro, or anything special. I am a girl who loves her dog fiercely. The professionals in our dogs' lives are a wealth of knowledge. Always, always, always bring concerns to them. Also remember that you know your dog best. You’re their advocate, their hope, and their possibility for living the most fulfilling life possible. Ask questions, be curious. Don’t be afraid to challenge what you feel doesn’t align with your dog's experience. Use your resources, most academic journals are accessible for free. Throughout Indie’s journey I created a form to track the symptoms she was experiencing. I wanted the data to back up what I felt was wrong. I’ve created a viewable document that links my tracking form, Indie’s symptoms, and other details that were helpful to share with all the providers we’ve worked with and I’ve added it here: Indie's pain journey. Additionally, with TCS being understudied and misunderstood, I’ve created a document to link all the resources in one spot. From our journey, I have seen a wide range of breeds impacted: Greyhounds, Border Collies, Doodles, mixed breeds, to name a few. There isn’t much research yet on how this diagnosis is impacted by genetics. TCS is not going to discriminate. I’ve linked it here: TCS resource library. Indie is like most Boykins, is a feral force to be reckoned with. The Boykin community has always been outspoken for these LBD’s and I can only hope to be a voice in the sea supporting other owners.
-Katie Schloss & Indie @Indigo.the.boykin
-Katie Schloss & Indie @Indigo.the.boykin
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A Day in Indie’s Rehab
After spinal surgery, stitches heal first — nerves much later. To protect her spinal cord while it recovers, Indie’s activity is kept as controlled as IVDD-style crate rest: short leash walks, no stairs, no running, no furniture. Recovery isn’t sudden — it’s slow, intentional healing over time. |
Citations:
https://canadawestvets.com/2024/02/28/tethered-cord-syndrome-in-dogs/ Lampe, Rachel and Kalamkarova, Elina and Barnard, Laura and Mareschal, Augustin and Keenihan, Erin K and Sharp, Nick JH, Diagnosis, Surgery, and Outcome of Tethered Cord Syndrome in 12 Dogs (June 10, 2025). Accepted for publication in JVIM on 10/22/2025, published by the Oxford University Press. DOI 10.1093/jvimsi/aalaf031 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5761202 Posporis, C., Espinosa, J., Pumarola, M., Ortega, E. B., Alomar, J., Santifort, K., De Decker, S., Lam, K., Mínguez, J. J., Álvarez, P., & Aige-Gil, V. (2025). Anatomical and histological characterization of the filum terminale in dogs. Frontiers in veterinary science, 12, 1650893. https://doi.org/10.3389/fvets.2025.1650893 Wendland, T. M., Martin, K. W., Duncan, C. G., Marolf, A. J., & Duerr, F. M. (2016). Evaluation of pacing as an indicator of musculoskeletal pathology in dogs. Journal of Veterinary Medicine and Animal Health, 8(12), 207-213. Resources: TCS Resource Library Indie’s data tracking |
Tethered Cord Syndrome reference MRI - Included with permission for awareness and education
Tethered Cord Syndrome in Dogs —
Clinical Overview & Q&A Expert Contributor: Rachel Lampe, DVM, DACVIM (Neurology) Canada West Veterinary Specialists
Clinical Overview & Q&A Expert Contributor: Rachel Lampe, DVM, DACVIM (Neurology) Canada West Veterinary Specialists
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Tethered Cord Syndrome (TCS) is an emerging and often under-recognized cause of pain, gait changes, and sensory discomfort in dogs. Diagnosis can be challenging because MRI and X-rays may appear normal — especially in cases of occult TCS — and many early symptoms are subtle enough to be overlooked or dismissed.
This newly confirmed presentation in Boykin Spaniels underscores the need for awareness, improved diagnostic technique, and thorough neurological evaluation when pain behaviors don’t match standard imaging. Below is the complete Q&A provided by neurologist Dr. Rachel Lampe. |
What subtle clinical signs or behaviors may indicate Tethered Cord Syndrome in dogs?
Based on our research the most common clinical signs for dogs with occult TCS fall into 3 categories:
Why can MRI or X-rays appear normal even when TCS is present? What role does dynamic MRI play?
We are still learning how to diagnose TCS in dogs. The term “occult” TCS means a patient has clinical signs of TCS with a normal MRI. Diagnostic criteria in humans are a low lying conus (meaning the spinal cord ends below the level of L2) or a thickened filum terminale.
Unfortunately dogs have significant variation in where their spinal cord terminates, thus we can’t define a low lying conus, and their filum terminale is typically too small to measure accurately on MRI, and we don’t know what a normal thickness is yet. So we can’t apply human criteria to dogs.
Thus most dogs with occult TCS will have a normal routine MRI.
We currently are performing MRI images of the dog in a flexed and extended position (dynamic MRI) to evaluate how much the end of the spinal cord moves. We know that in dogs with TCS the end of the spinal cord has minimal movement (<3mm in my paper). Only one paper exists currently measuring movement in research beagles, and as more data becomes available, we may learn that some normal dogs also show minimal movement. This means MRI cannot always definitively diagnose TCS alone.
However, with more experience reviewing MRI and comparing to surgical findings, our team is starting to identify subtle changes on imaging that suggest tethering.
What do we know so far about surgical timing and outcomes?
This is a difficult question to answer at this time. Research in humans suggests earlier intervention may lead to better outcomes; we do not yet have comparable data in dogs.
It may be difficult to analyze due to limited case numbers and lack of understanding of disease progression. For example — if a young dog undergoes surgery early and improves, how do we know if they may have improved without surgery?
However, in general, it is reasonable to assume early treatment of chronic conditions may support a better long-term outcome.
What should veterinarians and owners understand about TCS?
Tethered cord syndrome is an important cause of back pain and exercise intolerance in young dogs. Transient paresthesia such as biting at the back end or paws, looking back suddenly, or sitting urgently during walks are common clinical signs.
In patients with significant quality-of-life impact, surgical detethering can lead to improvement. I have performed over 30 TCS surgeries, and so far all owners have reported improvement post-surgery.”
Research Links Provided
Pre-print JVIM article: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5761202
Dynamic MRI publication: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32574428/
Summary
Tethered Cord Syndrome has now been identified in Boykin Spaniels. Because imaging may appear normal, diagnosis often requires neurologist evaluation and dynamic-position MRI. As research grows, awareness of subtle symptoms, proper imaging technique, and early surgical consideration may significantly improve quality of life for affected dogs.
Based on our research the most common clinical signs for dogs with occult TCS fall into 3 categories:
- Back pain/discomfort — examples can include hypersensitivity to touch, exercise intolerance, difficulty with stairs or jumping, lumbar pain on exam.
- Gait changes — examples include skipping gait, stiff gait, bunny hopping.
- Transient paresthesias — such as looking suddenly/surprised at the back end, chewing at the tail, limb, flank, and sitting suddenly/urgently on walks.
Why can MRI or X-rays appear normal even when TCS is present? What role does dynamic MRI play?
We are still learning how to diagnose TCS in dogs. The term “occult” TCS means a patient has clinical signs of TCS with a normal MRI. Diagnostic criteria in humans are a low lying conus (meaning the spinal cord ends below the level of L2) or a thickened filum terminale.
Unfortunately dogs have significant variation in where their spinal cord terminates, thus we can’t define a low lying conus, and their filum terminale is typically too small to measure accurately on MRI, and we don’t know what a normal thickness is yet. So we can’t apply human criteria to dogs.
Thus most dogs with occult TCS will have a normal routine MRI.
We currently are performing MRI images of the dog in a flexed and extended position (dynamic MRI) to evaluate how much the end of the spinal cord moves. We know that in dogs with TCS the end of the spinal cord has minimal movement (<3mm in my paper). Only one paper exists currently measuring movement in research beagles, and as more data becomes available, we may learn that some normal dogs also show minimal movement. This means MRI cannot always definitively diagnose TCS alone.
However, with more experience reviewing MRI and comparing to surgical findings, our team is starting to identify subtle changes on imaging that suggest tethering.
What do we know so far about surgical timing and outcomes?
This is a difficult question to answer at this time. Research in humans suggests earlier intervention may lead to better outcomes; we do not yet have comparable data in dogs.
It may be difficult to analyze due to limited case numbers and lack of understanding of disease progression. For example — if a young dog undergoes surgery early and improves, how do we know if they may have improved without surgery?
However, in general, it is reasonable to assume early treatment of chronic conditions may support a better long-term outcome.
What should veterinarians and owners understand about TCS?
Tethered cord syndrome is an important cause of back pain and exercise intolerance in young dogs. Transient paresthesia such as biting at the back end or paws, looking back suddenly, or sitting urgently during walks are common clinical signs.
In patients with significant quality-of-life impact, surgical detethering can lead to improvement. I have performed over 30 TCS surgeries, and so far all owners have reported improvement post-surgery.”
Research Links Provided
Pre-print JVIM article: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5761202
Dynamic MRI publication: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32574428/
Summary
Tethered Cord Syndrome has now been identified in Boykin Spaniels. Because imaging may appear normal, diagnosis often requires neurologist evaluation and dynamic-position MRI. As research grows, awareness of subtle symptoms, proper imaging technique, and early surgical consideration may significantly improve quality of life for affected dogs.
Your Role in Protecting Your Dog
Because awareness can change outcomes — and Indigo’s story may help another Boykin.
Because awareness can change outcomes — and Indigo’s story may help another Boykin.
Tethered Cord Syndrome is subtle, easy to miss, and frequently mirrors IVDD, Degenerative Myelopathy, or FCE. Symptoms may be behavioral, intermittent, or dismissed as pain sensitivity — which means dogs can decline quietly and dangerously if early evaluation is delayed. If you notice unexplained back pain, skipping or stiff gait, sudden sit-downs, or repeated looking/biting toward the hind end, please seek referral to a board-certified neurologist. Standard X-rays cannot diagnose this condition, and even routine MRI may appear normal — so neurologists must be made aware that TCS has now been documented in at least one Boykin Spaniel. It is also important to note that Indigo’s story was only possible because her owner carried pet insurance. Her total cost — diagnostics, MRI, and surgical detethering — exceeded $10,000, not including travel from North Carolina to Boston to reach a surgeon specializing in this condition. Without insurance, persistence, and financial preparedness, this outcome may have been very different. We strongly recommend Pet Insurance with full coverage including rehab & alternative therapy options, and that families maintain access to emergency funds ($10–15K recommended for reimbursement-based policies).
Awareness leads to early recognition.
Early recognition gives a dog a chance.
And preparedness — financial, emotional, medical --
is often what determines whether that chance is possible.
Early recognition gives a dog a chance.
And preparedness — financial, emotional, medical --
is often what determines whether that chance is possible.
